Kagiso “KandyBoi” Mokoena joins The Spirit of Alchemy to explore fashion as identity, energy, and self-authorship. In this deeply reflective conversation, he shares how patience, radical self-belief, and an unwavering commitment to mental health have shaped a bespoke fashion house rooted in femininity, confidence, and authenticity. A powerful episode about becoming, deliberately, unapologetically, and on your own terms.
The Silhouette of Self: KandyBoi and the Art of Becoming is a conversation about fashion not as trend, but as language — a way of expressing identity, confidence, and inner alignment.
In this episode of The Spirit of Alchemy, hosts Bobby and Rehema sit down with Kagiso “KandyBoi” Mokoena, South African fashion designer, stylist, and creative director, to unpack the philosophy behind his work and the personal journey that shaped it. Known for bold couture, sculptural silhouettes, and an unapologetic celebration of the feminine form, KandyBoi reveals that his brand is not built on garments alone, but on how people feel when they wear them.
From sketching designs at fourteen to officially launching his brand in 2017, Kagiso’s journey is one of self-teaching, patience, and intentional growth. He speaks openly about being “delusional” in pursuit of his vision — not as fantasy, but as disciplined self-belief and trust in his own clarity. For KandyBoi, becoming is not rushed. It is cultivated.
Together, the conversation explores:
• Fashion as an extension of identity rather than an external performance
• The female silhouette as a canvas for confidence, presence, and power
• Why how a client feels matters more than how they look
• Building a bespoke brand rooted in trust, listening, and energy alignment
• Protecting mental health as a non-negotiable part of entrepreneurship
• Learning every part of the craft before scaling or delegating
• Choosing alignment over money — even when it means walking away
• Growing alongside peers rather than chasing status or celebrity
• Patience, long-term vision, and redefining success on your own terms
• Legacy, mentorship, and creating pathways for the next generation
KandyBoi’s story challenges fast-growth culture and redefines success as self-honouring, intentional, and deeply human. It is a reminder that when identity, energy, and action align, the work speaks for itself.
This episode is an invitation to consider how you are shaping your own silhouette, and what it means to become with integrity.
Bobby: The Spirit of Alchemy. Good morning and welcome to another episode of The Spirit of Alchemy. We're all storytellers.Stories shape our realities and the realities of those we engage with and or serve. The name of our show conveys the essence of the magic of entrepreneurship that is more than just what the individuals or businesses do or create with an interest in the people behind the brands or the stories we engage with. Join us in conversation with our guests as we unpack the essence of their impact.We explore the source of inspiration, the genius of vision and creativity, the challenges and chaos of building a business and the inevitable journey of growth and evolution.
Rehema: Thank you so much, Bobby. Today's guest is Kahiso KandiBoi Mokoena, a South African fashion designer, stylist and creative director celebrated for his bold avant-garde couture and empowering designs.Over the years, KandiBoi, as he's known to people, has been known from styling spaces like photo shoots, custom designs, and he's really highly sought after by women in the know who know what it means to be styled. Now, looking at KandiBoi today, the first thing that came to my mind was, KandiBoi? What kind of name is that? But then I sat back and I thought, I am a millennial and therefore I am not going to be with it with the names, right? I'm going to be sitting back and thinking KandiBoi has got something to do with sweets. Am I far off from that, though?
Kagiso: No, you're not.
Rehema: I'm not?
Kagiso: I have a crazy sweet tooth, yeah.
Rehema: A crazy sweet tooth. Oh, wow. Listen, not only does he have a crazy sweet tooth, I've got to tell you, this boy smells divine.I walked in and the only thing that's coming up for me is scent. And I said to him, you know, what's that scent? He's going to tell me. But I think importantly is what you said about how scent is not just about scent.It's about storytelling. It's about capturing attention. And this is really about who you are, understanding what it means to command a space, to be present in a space.And you specifically taken time to identify that and what it means for women. Now, if I look at your tagline, which is “liberated woman, power of femininity”, are you a feminist?
Kagiso: I wouldn't say wholeheartedly, but I believe in a lot of things that feminists believe in.
Rehema: OK
Kagiso: Yeah, let's just put it that way.
Rehema: So where did you start? Where did you start? Welcome to the show, by the way. I went right into it.
Kagiso: Thank you.Thank you for having me.
Rehema: Welcome. Welcome to the show.It's so good to have you here. And it's so good to have young designers on board who are embracing their identity, their history, but also carving and creating a safe space for women to be emboldened and to experience themselves as women wholly, fully and also artistically. What are the origins of KandiBoi? Where does this start?
Kagiso: Well, let's say officially the company started in 2017.
Rehema: Yeah
Kagiso: Officially on paper and all these things. But I've been sketching designs since the age of 14 back in high school. Yes, I've been I've been building up for quite a few years to get to be where I am today.
Rehema: So you're actually telling me to pay attention. My daughter's been sketching forever. And we actually go to the point where she's like she's been from the age of like eight to 10. She wants to do fashion design. African parents, we're all like, how are you going to make money from this thing?
Kagiso: Yeah, that's the biggest concern. But everything is literally a build up.You can't make money from the beginning, obviously, you know, but as the brand grows, then the eyes come in and then the income comes in right after that. Yeah, but encourage her. Yeah.Just listen to the kids. Listen to the children.
Rehema: Once again, I am being humbled in the show.
Kagiso: No, just listen to the children.
Rehema: I must step back and I must listen.But let's go into origins because you started off with drawing, right? Yes. So you understood then the form of the woman. Why woman? More than anything, women, they are liberated and they let you liberate yourself at the same time.So nine times out of 10, if there's a lifestyle event, a party, family gathering, anything, women will put in the effort to look their best, you know. So there's always challenge, fun things to do consistently every other weekend. There's always something to experiment with in fashion.When it comes to men, you really find people that are really fashion forward, willing to experiment and have fun with those things, you know. Yeah. So the core of femininity is that we have fun and it's consistently evolving.So that's why I focus more on women's wear.
Bobby: So from early days, the sketching you started to do, that was all around women's fashion.
Kagiso: From day one.
Bobby: From day one.
Kagiso: It's always been about the girls.
Bobby: Okay, but sketching is one thing.Translating that into a brand, the way you have.
Kagiso: Yes.
Bobby: There's a lot of steps in between.What are those ingredients?
Rehema: He's jumping.
Bobby: Just like you like to say, a timeline check. So from that, there is no magic wand.How did you get to?
Kagiso: I am the magic. Let me put it that way. I am the magic.
Rehema: OhOkay.
Kagiso: But from then on, I would sketch, I would do a lot of research. I'd watch a lot of Fashion Police.Remember Fashion TV?
Rehema: Oh I loved that.
Kagiso: There was a channel on DSTV that was dedicated to fashion from morning till night. So I would watch that a lot. I'd read a lot of Vogue. I'd keep up with a lot of brands.
Rehema: But those are not South African.
Kagiso: They're not, but they've built entities that are bigger than anything else.
Rehema: Okay.
Kagiso: You know, over the years, like Versace, Gucci, all those big brands. If you study those origins, it'll make sense to you right now.Because in the back of your head, a brand is a brand because they had funding, they had an abundance of money and all these things. No, everyone started from zero. And that's why I think I had the confidence to do what I did.Because when you look back at the bigger brands right now, they started in a small showroom, in a garage, in all these small spaces. Yeah. So from then on, I started sketching and then I started having fun with a few of my friends via matric dances.
Rehema: So you designed the matric gift?
Kagiso: A few people. Yeah. I was still learning.I was still learning.
Rehema: How old were you?
Kagiso: I was about, when I made my first gown, I think I was about 18. If I'm not mistaken.
Rehema: Is it still around? Does that person still have it?
Kagiso: I don’t know.
Rehema: You have to find out. People put those things in archives.
Kagiso: It was not the best. It was not the best. She was just giving me a chance as a friend, I think, more than anything.
Rehema: What a friend. Do you still have that person as a friend?
Kagiso: Oh, they're around. Yeah.
Rehema: Okay.
Kagiso: I don't give up on people that much.
Rehema: Oh, I like the way, the direction you took that one. So you don't give up on people.You were giving your first break from friends and family.
Kagiso: Yes.
Rehema: I mean, that's an entrepreneur's template, right? Is that your first place that you get your breakthrough or the places that you get to test what you're thinking about is the people who know you. People who are willing to take a chance, but people who are comfortable being themselves as well and bearing the brunt of, if it's not so good.Was it good?
Kagiso: Right now? Today? No. But at that time, I think it was adequate. Today, Id say “wooh”.
Yeah, no, but at that time it made sense for me, at that time.
Rehema: Yeah. And what style were you pursuing then? What was the identity of this outlook you had about what you wanted to create? You said there was a lot of influences, right? I'm trying to understand how you came up to a distinctive KandiBoi influence. What was the journey of that?
Kagiso: For me, it was about the silhouette.So the female form. Skinny, plus size, tall. I celebrate the body more than I celebrate trends.
Rehema: But even the direction you've gotten, Bobby, I'm going to be hogging this one.
Kagiso: It's okay.
Rehema: You’ve got to jump in, hey?
Bobby: I definitely will.I'm waiting for a chance. Will you take a breath, please?
Rehema: I'm going to take a breath soon but he's touching on things. Obviously, my silhouette is, we call it curvy.
Kagiso: Curvy
Rehema: I love modern…
Kagiso: Not these days, it's always been curvy. It's always been curvy.
Rehema: Girl, dude, I grew up in the 70s, 80s.We had mean words for it, but definitely on the curvy range, a lot more celebration of the female form. It seems like you've grown up with an appreciation. Why curvy? What was the influence that was going on in your space and life that made that the area to focus on?
Kagiso: From cousins, aunts, sisters, I don't think there's many women in my family that are, quote unquote, model skinny.None of them are. So I think I learned from an early age that the presented form on television and media and all these things is not necessarily what really is happening.
Rehema: It's not the only story.
Kagiso: It's not even…
Rehema: The real story
Kagiso: 60% of women are curvy, let's be honest. If they're not curvy from a young age, by the time they're like 20-something, they've gotten curves. So instead of me just concerning myself with the typical skinny model, that's great for images and magazines and it's what sells.But ultimately, the real form is a curvy woman.
Bobby: Okay, so I'm going to jump in here because we did have the privilege of having a pre-interview with you last week. And the question I asked you was around is there a distinctive brand around KandiBoi, the clothing? And you had a beautiful way of expressing what it is that you do. That there's so much more than the clothing. So I'd just love you to share that with us and with our viewers.
Kagiso: With me, more than anything, when a client comes to me and says, hey, I have a particular music video or an event I'm going to and I don't know what to wear.I usually ask them, hey, give me a reference of what you're comfortable with. Like, are you comfortable showing legs, cinched waist? What is your aesthetic personally to you? What do you enjoy about your body?
Rehema: Do they always know?
Kagiso: Yeah, a lot of times they know. I like showing breasts.I like showing legs. I prefer, you know what I mean? So then whatever I design, it focusses based on that. So we celebrate that more that than anything.That's what I'm saying. I usually listen to the client more than anything. Because if the confident part of you is showing off, chances are you're going to be 10 times confident on the day of.And if you are confident, everyone else is going to be asking you, where did you get your dress? Why do you feel so good? So ultimately, I'm consistently marketing myself even through my absence with you.
Rehema: Your works of art are moving around. So the client's journey is, so I hear about you.So as soon as we said, KandiBoi, outside of our old Madala framing, everybody's like, oh, my goodness. Oh, okay. Oh, my goodness.He's very well known.
Bobby: Yes, but absolutely. No, no, I know.Well, huge number of followers, you just have to have a look around. And being well known, I think it's an understatement. But well done for that.Going back to the sort of brand that you've created, because this was something that really did touch me. It was so much more than the clothing, because it extended beyond the clothing to just the overall image, the overall experience of being dressed up. And it's really what your brand is, is how your customer feels, having been styled by you.And that's the A to Z, it's everything. You know, that is a mind shift in terms of, okay, I'm just making an outfit that I can replicate 400 times and move on. It's very bespoke, it's very individualised, it's, a person leaves their feeling, it's the feeling that you give them.How did you decide that that's the route that you wanted to follow that you wanted to go more than just designing and fabricating?
Kagiso: So a lot of the times in our country, you could see someone wearing the most gorgeous dress ever, but then the styling is completely opposite. So then it takes away from the entire look of the dress. So when I sketch and I sit with you, I'll talk to you, I'll ask you, “Hey, do you have a clutch bag?” “No.” “Do you have shoes?” “What are you comfortable with?”
Rehema: So that's what the styling is.
Kagiso: Yes. We go into that, then I make sure that you look presentable from head to toe. I'll suggest makeup artists, I'll suggest hairstylists, I'll suggest just about everything.Because ultimately, when you take that picture, you are pushing my brand subconsciously, essentially. I'm able to use that images 10 times for over, because of that one experience. And if you feel confident, it shows in the images.So I try to not take control, but allow my client to feel as fruitful as possible and understand where they spent their money. Was it worth the effort?
Rehema: I mean, I'm loving where this is going. You know, I'm going to use the words, I'm loving it, because I'm always loving it.But here's a question that I'm often asked in the last, this year, particularly by women executives. The question says, I want to be more confident. And often my area of engaging is on speaking.But you're saying, actually, just start with how you're dressing.
Kagiso: How you look, yeah. Unfortunately, we are all shallow to some extent.
Rehema: I mean, my mother always used to tell me, I must watch how I'm dressing. And I'm like, ah, it doesn't matter. And you're saying it matters.
Kagiso: For instance, let me do an example. This morning, I was wearing sweats, coming to the studio.
Rehema: Like I am right now.
Kagiso: To put up this mannequin. And when I came back the second time, the ladies were like, huh, who's this? I was like, see, it's a shift.
Rehema: It actually is.
Kagiso: It's a huge shift, it helps.
Rehema: Actually, in the interview that we had with him just before the session, I recognised him. When I walked in today, I...
Kagiso: Completely different person.
Bobby: No, but you threw me as well, because I saw you earlier.
Kagiso: Yes, I was in a different outfit. Exactly.
Bobby: Okay, cool.
Kagiso: So I work with fabrics and needles and all these other things. I'd rather be in sweats and be comfortable, you know.And then when I have to do something like this and show out, speak about the brand, then I have to present the brand how I would envision it to be 20 years from now, if I'm not around, you know.
Bobby: But it shows as well how you dress and how it changes the energy.
Kagiso: Absolutely.
Bobby: In terms of your own personal energy.
Kagiso: Yes, everyone's energy around you, yeah.
Rehema: It's highly manipulative, you're in complete control.
Bobby: Just jumping to saying you do a lot of... When you're doing... When you're busy working and doing stuff, you're more comfortable in sweats. You do everything yourself.
Kagiso: Absolutely everything, yeah.
Bobby: the entire KandiBoi, the entire production...
Kagiso: Consultations, concepts, mood boards, everything is through me.
Bobby: All the sewing, all the designing.
Kagiso: Absolutely.
Bobby: The support crew?
Kagiso: I mean, I do have a few people that come in when I have an overwhelming amount of work. Like, for instance, this gown has crystals and detailing on it. I would construct the pattern and sew the pieces together.But if I'm slightly overwhelmed, I can have third-party people come in to help me hand stitch the stones and all these other things. But ultimately, construction is all me. Concepts, sketches, all these things.It's me.
Bobby: And how did you learn all of this? Did you... I mean, post-sketching and making your first outfit and check... The jump, the learning of all of this. Did you have formal training in design, formal training in sewing?
Kagiso: No, all self-taught.Everything.
Bobby: Everything self-taught?
Kagiso: Everything from zero to now. Even with the business, learning all these other things.Because now we have so many resources to learn. There's no excuse. There's no excuse.YouTube channels. There's people that are teaching you literally from math to construction of gowns. Everything, yeah.So there's no excuse. Everything is self-taught. Hand beading, stitching.Learn how to use a machine.
Bobby: You mentioned that you're delusional in pursuit of everything. Delulu. I learnt a new word.
Kagiso: Yes. Ah, yes. Who taught you that? Exactly.
Rehema: Google afterwards.
Kagiso: Delulu. Oh.
Bobby: No
Rehema: Tanna.
Bobby: Tanna yes
Kagiso: Tanna oh okay. I'm extremely delusional in pursuit of just about everything. The only thing I'm not delusional about is humans.Human interaction.
Rehema: What do you mean by being delusional?
Kagiso: I... If something comes to me, because I'm so sober-minded, I believe I'm very smart, I'm articulate, I'm kind. Nothing comes to me by mistake.It's not influenced by...
Rehema: Mara the confidence. No, I love it.
Kagiso: I'm not influenced by any third parties. So that's why I spend a lot of time alone as well. Just to avoid being influenced by decision-making. So if I have to make a decision, I make it myself. I don't really ask for third-party assistance. Because if I fail, then I failed for myself. And I'm going to learn and do it again. Try it again. There's no embarrassment. There's no discomfort because it's a solo mission.
Rehema: Okay.
Bobby: But in that, there's a confidence that you've chosen fashion design. This is the way you're moving. Whatever you've moved through to get to where you are, I'm sensing there's no limits.
Kagiso: Absolutely.
Bobby: So you can find anything you need to. You can put in anybody you need to by way of support.So what's coming through here is that there doesn't need to be... Whatever it is that you do in life, there doesn't have to be a limit.
Kagiso: If you are sober-minded.
Bobby: Because everything is there.
Rehema: I want to know where that comes from.
Kagiso: Mom. My mother.My grandmother and mom, yeah.
Rehema: I want to know how you grew up. I want to know what is it that makes this powerful expression of self that is unapologetic about existing and being.
Kagiso: Yeah.
Rehema: I want to know what your home life was like. And when you say your mother and your grandmother, what it is about them that allows... Are they like this or this is what they feel that you allow?
Kagiso: This is what they've created.
Rehema: Oh, so they're not...
Kagiso: They still have limiting beliefs every now and again. But because you are a child, you can't really call anyone else in that manner. In our community, “you have limiting beliefs”.You shouldn't...
Rehema: But you tell your mom that.
Kagiso: My mom, yes.
Bobby: I want to add this little thing in part of the conversation, there was something within your home environment upbringing that encouraged you to choose you every day. So how does that work into the story? Sorry, I wanted to put that in as a thought.
Kagiso: So I was raised by my gran from obviously age one until about, I think I was in grade six. That's when I moved to live with my mom in Johannesburg. Right.I was always taught that nothing is impossible.
Rehema: From your gran?
Kagiso: From my grandmother.
Rehema: OK, so we know grandmothers spoil kids.
Kagiso: I was spoiled, but there's a level of discipline that I have that...
Rehema: OK.
Kagiso: I don't know how she instilled that in me because I can be independent while being with someone. OK.And that's what she told me. It's like, yes, I can help you. But ultimately, if you're doing it yourself, you're learning, you're figuring it out.And then if there's any mishaps or mistakes, you'll balance it out yourself, you know.
Rehema: Fantastic.
Kagiso: Yeah.
Rehema: Then you went to your mom.
Kagiso: Mom, yeah. Mom is a softie.She's nice. That's why I'm so delusional, you know? She's like, whatever you want, go off, do it. I support you, you know? But of course, they have concerns of like, you know, the black family, they'll be like, oh, but you started from zero.You're building something from scratch. It's like, it's a lot.
Rehema: They must have been worried.
Kagiso: Of course, yeah. But look at it this way. I'm queer.I have no children. I have no other responsibilities. I don't have a dog.I don't have any major responsibility that inhibits me from pursuing anything I want.
Rehema: You know, as you started speaking, I was like, I didn't ask you your pronouns.
Kagiso: He. He/Him.
Rehema: Thank you. So I didn't get that wrong.
Kagiso: No, it's all right.
Rehema: No, I'm sitting back and Im conscious because…
Kagiso: Thinking about it, yeah.
Rehema: You come in with so many unconscious biases in the way of engaging, freedom to be yourself, freedom to express.And thank you for sharing about your mom. Because there's an expression that I give is that there's something to be said about Africa's women, even if they're not expressing themselves as looking confident. What they've created for your generation is something that we have totally underestimated. The powerhouses that you will be because of the freedom to exist in the way that you are unapologetic. We often come into this conversation and with questions around, what was the blank canvas, right? Assuming you're drawing something on nothing. What was the canvas that you were drawing on? What was it that you built up on? And part of what you've given us is that you've built up on what was before you, right? They say entrepreneurs are not necessarily creating something new, but they're looking at things differently. You're looking at the art or the silhouette, love that, of an African woman who you're exposed to all the day. It didn't matter that that's not what media was showing you. It was your truth and your reality. So would it be fair to say that your canvas was the truth that you exist in?
Kagiso: Yeah
Rehema: And what you're doing is creating almost a fairy tale in modern day terms for the rest of the world to be able to consume.
Kagiso: Yes.
Rehema: Because when I listen to you, I'm like, that's the story for me around what he's doing is bringing to life the story of what he is saying. And not everybody sees it in the same way because we're directed as to where our attention must be. What's your vision going forward? Given that that's the canvas you were picking up pieces from and have created, what's your vision for KandiBoi going forward? Leveraging also what he said around being a solopreneur at the moment.You've got big dreams. You are highly sought after. And let me pause before I put in too much, but where are you going? Where are you taking this?
Kagiso: For me, I just wanted to build a space where fashion is literally the language at the core.So within my company right now, I have a styling division. That's what I told you about earlier, of the music videos, photoshoots, anything visual compilation involved. So you would give me, for instance, a budget of R20,000 and say, hey, we've got three models.We've got this and that. We’re shooting on this day. Do you.Then I come and curate that entire visual direction and do all those things. And that meaning that says, I'm not only going to hire designers in the company in the long run, I won't be able to style every single client in about two or three years. So then I'll bring in stylists along with tailors, along with artisans who are able to hand bead garments.I'm trying to expand beyond just bespoke things, you know. Yeah. And going into ready to wear, swimwear, all these divisions of fashion.I want everything.
Rehema: You're going, you're coming for it all.
Kagiso: I want every single thing.Even in your home. I want to be in your home. At some point.
Rehema: What does that mean?
Kagiso: Home decor.
Rehema: Lifestyle.
Kagiso: Lifestyle, everything.
Rehema: Okay. So if I'm hearing you, you're starting small. You're very clear about where you're starting. You're very clear about what the opportunity is that you're seeking and you're developing.Your current market, that's what they're getting from you, right?
Kagiso: Yes.
Rehema: But you're seeing a need to grow beyond that.
Kagiso: Yes. Absolutely.
Rehema: And you've got time.How long do you think, I mean, if we were to sit back and say, he said it, he said it, but you know, in 10 years time, 15 years time, how much time are you giving?
Kagiso: 20, 30.
Rehema: 20, 30?
Kagiso: Yeah.
Rehema: That is a very patient vision.
Kagiso: Yes. Very patient.
Rehema: What makes you that patient?
Kagiso: One thing I've learned about running a business is that I don't want to overwhelm myself.So before I launch or start something, I like to sit in it for a good six months. You understand? So I can understand every facet of it because if I hire you and you're telling me, this is how this thing works and I have no experience, I'm just going to be like, oh, okay. Go off, do you? And at that point, I'm losing a level of control in the business that it shouldn't be because now I'm using your visual direction to lead a business that I've built from zero.You know what I mean? So I like learning. That's why it takes me a little bit longer. I like learning and understanding and then bringing you in with the vision that I have for myself.
Rehema: I like how you're breaking stereotypes. There's a stereotype that persists that the younger generation is not patient. To sit and already be envisaging a 30-year outlook is phenomenal.I mean, I don't have that patience personally, not that I'm the benchmark. But many of us, when we grow businesses, we're not looking 30 years down the line. Again, your upbringing must have something to do with it.
Kagiso: Someone asked me the other day, so if you want to have kids, what's your legacy? I'm like, my legacy is literally this. I don't have to leave it to family, friends or anyone. Someone can just come and buy into it and move on.But the fact that when you go back in time, you'll be like, oh, this person built this thing.
Bobby: I think what's really important and that speaks to any entrepreneur really is the, well, one thing that's jumped out for me is the patience. But when you're developing a fashion brand, it's a creative, it's artistic, it's you.And the sitting with something for three, four, five, six months before bringing somebody into, you wanting them to be able to step into your shoes and follow your direction. Because what you do is very distinct or very personalised. And it's not going to be diluted by all these different other opinions.So that's very focused. But also just in terms of that timeline, you know, to say 20, 30 years, it's sort of telling me that there isn't a Excel spreadsheet that's there like boom, boom, boom. This is going back to your, you know, having this blind faith in the universe that it's going to deliver.
Kagiso: All the time.
Bobby: And that's sort of how you've…
Kagiso: Led
Bobby: How everything's evolved for you. But you've referenced on a few occasions now that you, well, even when you did that outfit and there's a specific skill that you lack, you will bring people in.But now when you're going to grow the business, you can have these different divisions or you already do have them, but you'll start populating them with people that are going to align with you, etc. Just talk us through growing in the environment that you're in. How does that look for you? Because you raised a very important, or you've made a very important statement, one that sort of resonated with me, where you said it's important to grow with the people that you are with.
Kagiso: Yes.
Bobby: Now, just please unpack that for us, because I think that is so relevant to so many different industries.
Kagiso: Yeah. So when I was starting out, obviously when you're starting out to try to grow a business, you want the biggest stars, the most popular person to wear your pieces.But at that time you don't realise it's okay. I can be growing with people right now. There's people that still want to be actors, actresses, artists and all these things.In that moment, you don't see it like that, right? You're still growing up. You feel like everyone is at the same level. We're all trying to figure something out.But I later learned that I don't need to dress the biggest star in the country. I can dress the come-up star because tomorrow could be her blow-up day. So that's when I realised, okay, I can dress my peers. And then whether it's two years from now, a year from now, we've built a relationship. And when she's famous, famous, who's she going to call first?
Rehema: The person that she knows.
Kagiso: Exactly.So that's how I grew the brand through partnerships and collaborations with a lot of people.
Bobby: Does that also apply to the people that work with you in the fabrication or the making of the art?
Kagiso: Yes. It's all long term.
Bobby: It's all people as well that are learning as they're going along.
Kagiso: Figuring it out, yes.
Bobby: Yeah, figuring it out.
Kagiso: But ultimately, I don't want someone to be stuck with me forever.I mean, everyone starts somewhere to build up and learn how to negotiate certain things, learn how to work with influencers, celebrities, and then move on to build their own entities. But I always encourage my peers, don't think you're going to be here for 30 years. We're not going to build together.You have to go build up your own things, ultimately.
Bobby: What I've noticed with the, I don't want to say the millennial generation, what comes after that just shows how out of touch I am with it. But let's say the millennial generation.There's so many kids that are out of varsity or whatever, and they want to go and join their first company as MD, chairman, or assistant CEO. And that's their target. That's where they want to be.But they don't understand this..
Kagiso: Gradual growth.
Bobby: Sort of the gradual growth, organic growth. Entering at a level, working with the people that you're with.
Kagiso: Who you're with at that time.
Bobby: And spending time and appreciating the journey to get to where you need to be. And by setting that as your target, and you're not there, you're going to wake up every morning feeling…
Kagiso: Because you're not matching that vibration yet. The CEO of WorkPods, you're not there yet.So vibrate with the people that are with you right now. So when you get to the next spot, you understand what you just did behind you. So what's the point of just going to the top and not understanding small logistical movements?
Rehema: You're also reducing the risk of failure.
Kagiso: Yes.
Rehema: Because as I'm listening, if you're working with your peers and you're all growing, there's something about safety for failure. What does failure look like? What are some of the realities of the journey that you've walked? What are some of the treacherous parts that you've encountered or had to navigate?
Kagiso: I think because of my delusion, I don't think anything is that bad. I don't really feel like anything was like the end of the world.It's treacherous. No, it's a lesson. Okay, what did I do wrong that I can just go back and regroup? You know, I've made mistakes along the way.
Rehema: What's your safety net that you always go back to?
Kagiso: My…
Rehema: No, what is… For you to be able to live with absolute safety and comfort
Kagiso: Me, my mental health.
Rehema: There must be a safety net that you have curated or that exists that allows that to persist.
Kagiso: I always ask myself, what's the worst that could happen?
Rehema: Your mental health is your...
Kagiso: Number one.
Rehema: Okay, so…
Kagiso: If I'm not okay, I stop.
Rehema: Is this something you've always known or did you have to crash to understand this?
Kagiso: I had to figure it out as I was growing.
Rehema: You crashed?
Kagiso: Yeah, a little bit.But not a crazy crash. But it's like, yeah, you have to sit back and say, okay, I'm not okay. I can't function.There's no way I'm going to be sitting at a studio for 20 hours shooting a music video if I'm upset.
Rehema: Okay, so your health is non-negotiable?
Kagiso: Number one, non-negotiable. That's like number one.
Rehema: That's your safety net.
Kagiso: I walk away from absolutely everything.
Rehema: That is extremely...
Kagiso: Everything.And every one I walk away, I'm like, this is not good.
Bobby: But having that ability to be aware of how you are, what level your energy is at, so you can actually make that call.
Kagiso: And nine times out of ten, you know something's going to fall apart. Come, lets be honest.
Rehema: No, there's a difference between knowing and the difference between knowing and circumventing it. Many times people are crashing because they know it and they still do it.
Kagiso: They still go through it, yep, I walk away.
Rehema: That's why you are very intriguing for me because you know it, you walk away from it. And that's why I keep asking you, what's there?
Kagiso: I always tell myself, let it flow.If it's not flowing, it's not supposed to happen. Stop.
Rehema: Have you ever been in a position where, and I'm speaking on behalf of those who would presume that entrepreneurship is easy, because when you're walking within the flow, it kind of seems like these decisions are no-brainers for you.They're easy to come... Smooth sailing. Smooth sailing. Is that the case? Are there sacrifices?
Kagiso: Of course.
Rehema: There might be discomfort, but are there sacrifices that you're making that may not look like somebody else's? So where your piece is non-negotiable, what are some of the sacrifices that do throw curveballs at you?
Kagiso: Because I don't have a, I would say a personal life, essentially. My business is literally my entire existence. I miss out on a lot of things and a lot of peers events.And to some that have never been entrepreneurs, see it as like, oh, there he goes chilling with a celebrity again. And I'm like, I'm not chilling. Chances are if you see me with a celebrity, something is happening.There's work.
Rehema: You're at work.
Kagiso: Yes. So it feels some type of way for them, but entrepreneur may understand that actually he has to run around and figure things out by himself.
Rehema: Okay.
Bobby: I think the thing that came up for me again, which I want to bring back to just a general entrepreneur's experience and talking about your energy levels and being aware of where you are. You've mentioned that you have either not taken on or fired a couple of clients because their energy was wrong.
Kagiso: Yeah.
Bobby: And I mean, that is obviously there's a financial loss associated with it, but it is again, it's honouring yourself, your own energy and knowing what is right for you. But the important thing for me there is that a lot of entrepreneurs, a lot of people in business think that everyone is their client.And that is so often not the case.
Kagiso: Not the case, yeah.
Bobby: And it's to be brave enough to say, you're not our client.
Kagiso: Yeah, it's all right.
Bobby: It's all right. Off you go.So it's being able to acknowledge that. And I mean, that's and what you're doing is really hard because it's a, this is a personal no.
Kagiso: One-on-one. Yeah.
Bobby: It's not a question of saying, okay, well, this is a particular type of washing machine. You know, you can't afford it. You’re not our clientele. I'm not even going to market you.
Kagiso: It's a personal interaction.
Bobby: But you can have someone coming along saying, I've got the money and you go no.
Kagiso: The energy is absolutely. You walk away from a lot of things. You return, I return deposits.I don't mind doing that because how I see it is that, okay, I have five clients maybe in the month for bespoke pieces. And client number one is giving me a hard time affecting four other people. It's not worth it.
Rehema: You're protecting yourself.
Kagiso: Yes. You can't affect 20 other people because you're just one superstar or you think you're a superstar.Just walk away. Leave it alone. I'll find my superstars along the way.It's fine. You know, I'll meet my people. I always say that energy is so important.You'll meet your people. You'll know who your people are.
Rehema: Yeah, yeah.
Kagiso: You walk into a room, you're uncomfortable. It's a sign. The universe is saying, get out of there.You walk away. You try your best to interact and it's like, it's still not landing. It's like saying, yeah, listen.I always about just listen. Listen. You'll hear something.
Rehema: Yeah.
Kagiso: Listen to yourself. Yeah.
Rehema: So you're paying attention.
Kagiso: All the time.
Bobby: What I do like as well is that, you know, you say your people will find you.They're only going to find you if you're really being your authentic self.
Kagiso: Exactly.
Rehema: That's true.
Bobby: And that's what you are.
Kagiso: If you're aligned, everything falls into place.
Bobby: You are coming there, you're confident, you know exactly who you want to attract.
Kagiso: And what's the worst that could happen. You hate me. Good for you.
Rehema: Shap.
Kagiso: Welcome to Earth.You know.
Bobby: I saw a nice picture of Jack Nicholson with a cigar and, you know, looking the sort of silly sort of old guy that he normally is. And he said, it's okay if people don't like you. He said most people don't like themselves anyway.
Rehema: That’s true.
Kagiso: Thank you.
Bobby: And that's.
Rehema: Yeah, that's true.
Bobby: And to me that’s just to remind that you can't.
Kagiso: You can't make everybody happy.
Bobby: No, exactly.
Kagiso: I'm not money. I'm not money.
Rehema: You have such a gift of self-awareness.
Kagiso: Extremely, it's horrible though, to some extent. Because I think a lot of the times to function in a lot of human interactions, you have to have a level of blindness.
Rehema: So you find it difficult?
Kagiso: Not that it's difficult, but it's like, I don't get to do a lot of what people are getting to do because I can see through things earlier on. I'm like, no, you know.
Rehema: Are you labelled often?
Kagiso: Yeah. I believe so but they never say it to my face. Come on. I wouldn't even give them a chance to say anything, but I'm sure people talk.It's okay.
Rehema: And you're comfortable.
Kagiso: I'm okay with that.
Rehema: You're not here for that.
Kagiso: That was their experience of me. It's fine.
Rehema: Yeah.
Kagiso: You know what I mean? Someone else has a good time and they'll tell them, no way, that person is amazing. We don't experience people the same way.
Rehema: No, we don't.
Kagiso: Yeah, we don't.
Rehema: No, we don’t.
Kagiso: It's impossible.
Rehema: What's your greatest imagination for yourself? And you've spoken about how your business is going to be your legacy. What's the greatest imagination you have for you, your business, and for those engaging with your services?
Kagiso: Ultimately, global domination without losing a sense of self. You know what I mean?
Rehema: Global denomination, domination.
Kagiso: Domination of all the women, yeah, but without losing a sense of me and the person.
Rehema: Do you have a sense of all the women?
Kagiso: Because what happens is when you grow as a brand or as an entity, people begin to invest in the company and start having opinions. Now you're starting to sway small things. In the beginning, it's small things, but ultimately, it's going to be the big things at the end. So grow the company without losing a sense of who we are, what it is I'm doing, what the intention is all along. Because once that is gone, then it's like, what's the point?
Rehema: Where do you learn your business acumen from?
Kagiso: I read a lot.
Rehema: Okay.
Kagiso: I read a lot.
Rehema: What do you read?
Kagiso: The Secret is the core of why I'm so delusional in a lot of things. Rhonda Byrne. And then a lot of business books every now and again, like different businesses, not just fashion.So I want to see how I can, for instance, WorkPods, what model do they have that I can put into my little fashion business? Does it make sense? You know what I mean? All those small businesses. Like for instance, Mali does the viewing of the business, how she interacts with clients, all these things. I observe and I study.
Rehema: It is an art form, hey?
Kagiso: Yes. It's like, okay, when a client comes for a consultation, they haven't paid a deposit. They're just coming in to see if they want to work with you long term.Does the studio look decent? Are the clothes displayed properly? Am I going to be able to answer all her questions, her concerns, all these small things during the consult? It's like 15 minutes of your time, but it needs to make sense for me to spend R20,000 on a gown.
Bobby: So these are little nuggets that you pick up.
Kagiso: Yeah, small things, but I study from any other business, not just fashion.
Bobby: And I think that's one of the essential or important mindsets or skills of an entrepreneur is to be curious, to look at things and work out.
Kagiso: And also, I would say study people before you approach them.
Rehema: Okay, tell us more.
Kagiso: Okay, for instance, Bobby. I must observe him and say, okay, he runs his business, he's here at this time of day, this is the situation. So whatever I have to bring to the table, I want something from him, but the human brain is so silly that it wants something.
Rehema: Exchange.
Kagiso: Thank you. But without asking for it.So I would go to Bobby and say, oh, I noticed one, two, three, four, I've got 10 designer friends that would like to come in. Is it possible for us to work around this rate per month? Or this? Give him something without him having to ask 20,000 questions. By the time I walk out of that meeting, he's like, oh, this guy has given me absolutely everything.I have no reason to say no.
Rehema: Make the transaction easier.
Kagiso: Yeah, like I have no reason now, I can't say no, because he's covered all the questions I had in my head.So I tell him, like, before you approach someone, study them, observe what would make them happy in that transaction. Then give them all those things before they even ask you the first questions. That's how you get ahead in a lot of times.
Bobby: So here we have a fashion business entrepreneur's savant.
Kagiso: If I had the time, I'd be doing 20,000 other businesses.
Bobby: I think where you're going is you don't need 20,000 other businesses.What you pointed out to us is a massive goal, massive challenge.
Kagiso: I think that's how I get a lot of clients is that I ask questions. I'm like, okay, I'm going to give you the full invoice, the rate.But I'll tell you, if there's a strict budget for this thing, let me know. But this is how much I charge. Because I also want you to know how much my business worth is to me.So if my invoice is 40,000 rands for a certain project, and you have 20, I'm like, I'll take the 20, but you need to know how much I charge. Because if you give me a 20, you're telling everyone I charge 20, it affects. You must just say, hey, no, this guy charges this much.But if you talk to him, things might come together. But I'll tell you, okay. For instance, I work with Nkosazana Daughter, an artist who sings amapiano music.A lot of our projects are collaborations, but she ensures with her 2 point something million followers to give me my credits on social media. So I'd say, okay, let me give you a certain discount on a project. But I need you to tell everybody who did this.You know what I mean? And when I think about it, she's got an audience of 2 million people. It's huge.
Rehema: That's potential clients.
Kagiso: And if I had to pay her for that promo, how much would I be spending?
Rehema: Okay.
Kagiso: So I look at things, I figure things out, and I go to you with an offer instead of me contemplating, because it's not always about the money. Half the time for you to grow, essentially.
Rehema: In the beginning, right?
Kagiso: Because you make the money. Money is energy. It's not even just... It's vibrational.Everything is vibrational.
Rehema: You've got such a beautiful energy.
Kagiso: Thank you.
Bobby: So guys, unfortunately, we are running out of time.
Kagiso: We'll do part 2 soon.
Bobby: Before we wrap up, there's a big part of paying it forward, legacy.And this has been a common theme amongst all the various people that have appeared on our podcast, I guess. Is that everyone is paying it forward, paying it back. And you are doing that as well.I'd like you just to share that with us. But maybe blend into that story your obsession with corsets.
Kagiso: Yes.
Bobby: Well, I've seen you promote and advertise courses that you do, training. But I mean, that's paid for. But tell us about...
Kagiso: Okay, so those are classes that I do one-on-one with my people.So I don't enjoy a group class because I feel like you're not getting to the depth of everything. Even the student won't be able to ask clear questions. So I think if you're just one-on-one with the person, it's easier for them to enquire.Because sometimes you think, okay, this question is stupid. I can't ask it in front of 20 other people. But if it's just us, it's easier for you to navigate things and ask the small, silly questions and I can answer that.But another part, I was thinking about this the other day. Another part of my business that I'd like to push forward. Because of how I had to start from zero by myself.Sewing machines, all these small things. I was just thinking the other day, I'm like, what if each company had to mentor and fund the next? So find a fashion designer, purchase the fabrics from the starting point, and then mentor them for a year. I'm obligated to do that.So after five years of getting funding from Bobby, Bobby requires me to give funding to the next person and mentor them for a good three years, two years.
Rehema: See what he did there?
Kagiso: I would hope one day to be financially equipped to do that. That's how I want to pay it forward.Because I can have all the resources in the world, but if I don't know what I'm doing, it's absolutely pointless.
Rehema: Yeah. So you're offering people a starting point.
Kagiso: Yes. So I can fund your sewing machines, small fabrics. I can help you start. I can put you on with certain celebrities to curate their styling and all these other things.But then you are obligated to do it to the next person. So it keeps growing.
Rehema: And how much capacity do you have for that? So if you were to, if this was an open call to anyone listening, how many spaces for that would you have practically?
Kagiso: Practically?
Rehema: Yeah.
Kagiso: Let's say annually, I would take about three or four people. Yeah. Because there's peaks and dips and scheduling and busyness and all these things.
Rehema: Yeah.
Kagiso: So you can't commit to too many.
Rehema: No, that's a beautiful.
Kagiso: But that's long-term wise, I'd like to do that. You know, an obligation contract where you are obligated to help the next person who's in the same industry to learn from you.
Rehema: Each one teach one.
Kagiso: Because there's a lot of gatekeeping out there.
Rehema: Really? What does the gatekeeping look like? People that hold off on information and resources and they want certain personal favours in return, which is like wild to me.
Bobby: This is going to be part of episode two.
Kagiso: Yeah. There’s a lot going on.
Rehema: Okay. Okay.Okay. Got to hold it back because we clearly need to pick up on this one.
Bobby: No.And again, what I find so amazing is that, you know, what makes an industry rich and exciting is often it's the behind the scenes look that you've provided us with.
Rehema: Yeah. That people don't really know.
Bobby: And I think that's what we love sharing is that, you know, the insights that we've gained from you in terms of what it's taken you to get to where you are and also the vision, et cetera.
Rehema: Yeah.
Bobby: We can probably have a, nevermind episode two, but a whole lot more.
Kagiso: Yeah.
Bobby: But Kagiso, thank you very much for joining us.
Kagiso: You're welcome.
Bobby: What we do like to do is to, you've shared with us the legacy you want to leave, but part of the legacy we like you to leave with us is we've got a tree of life behind you there, which is part of our spirit of alchemy. And we invite each of our guests to leave their mark by way of leaves.
Kagiso: Absolutely.
Bobby: It's a pretty bare tree at the moment. But what we do have is a little ink pad there. So if you could dip your thumb in it and then choose a
Kagiso: The thumb specifically.
Bobby: No, it could be anything. You choose a
Rehema: Whichever digit you want.
Kagiso: Any spot?
Rehema: Yeah yeah
Bobby: Any spot.
Kagiso: At the top.
Bobby: Reaching for the stars.
Kagiso: Of course. There we go.
Bobby: Fantastic.
Kagiso: Thank you. Thank you.
Rehema: Gosh. We've come to a
Kagiso: We should we do episode two. I'll bring you guys with to a video shoot and we can just film and
Rehema: I'm telling you, right? I'm like, I'm looking at him and he's like, he wants to close it. I'm like, I'm not ready to close it off, so you can close it off, because I'm not ready.
Kagiso: I'll come back.
Rehema: I'm not ready to close this one. I'm enjoying it.
Bobby: Thank you so much for joining us. And we hope that how Kagiso chose his story into being and the story of the life that he's actually writing and living inspires you to realise that anything is possible and underlines the fact that the universe favours and supports action. Remember, you don't have to be great to start, but to be great, you have to start. Thank you for joining us. See you next time.
Kagiso: Thank you.
Rehema: Oh, guys.
Bobby: So that was a super exciting and energised interview with Kagiso from KandiBoi.Rehema, you got way more excited than any of us, which was really nice to see. But as with all these podcasts, there's always so many points that land with us and that we discuss afterwards. So we thought what would be a nice idea is for Rehema and I to share whatever we took out a little nuggets that we took out from the interview, but also to share them with you, but also for you to comment back to us to let us know what your thoughts were around the interview and any questions you might have.Rehema, tell us how the whole podcast went for you.
Rehema: I was pleasantly surprised, engaged and enthused by it. You know, to be honest, Bobby, I think there's so many aspects of it that were a bit subliminal for me that I wish we'd also spend a bit more time on.For me, I think the first thing that comes to mind is the positioning of a young African entrepreneur that's not born from struggle. This idea of a narrative that's curated, that he must be solving for something huge. It must be, you know, creating something amazing for people to be able to interact with in some way with great utility.But to be able to work in the space of luxury and comfort and refinement is such a pleasant space to be in. And it speaks to a differing, a different sense of need that the population is having that is worth us paying attention to. So no longer satisfying basic needs, we're actually going into the luxury, into the sophistication and into lifestyle.And that for me was very, very exciting.
Bobby: Yeah, so absolutely, that was but also what I've picked up, I think it's something that you raised is that the narrative is, you know, we often look at entrepreneurs, especially African entrepreneurs and think they've come from poverty and struggle, as you said, it's no longer a struggle narrative. But this is almost a circumstantial privilege that Kagiso is coming out of and he's creating wonders from that.So to me, that was also very sort of, it's just really so, so pertinent at the moment that there are people just growing on from legacies that are handed down to them. So that came out and his journey as well. I don't think he shared all the little hard bits with us.But it certainly hasn't been an easy ride. But I loved his his attitude or his tagline of the delusional part of him, which was really amazing.
Rehema: And I think that for me, what I love is also the language that's coming through that's personalised, right? We read a lot of books that have been written by authors not from our shores, that speak to psychological terms that speak to ways of doing business and to hear it narrated in real terms by a young person in their own language, making it so accessible.And it's almost like, oh my goodness, we've been doing this. Oh my goodness, we've had this. We don't need a foreign narrative or language of framing of what its existence is.He sounds very much self-aware. He sounds very comfortable in his being. He is comfortable making choices that are not driven by financial need but are driven by their own personal values.Aren't those the things that we speak about being necessary and an entrepreneur A to create and ideate and B to be successful and peaceful while being in business. If there was one aura that he was exuding, was it being at peace. And I think that's phenomenal, given what entrepreneurship actually takes from you.The stresses, the late nights, he walked in, and one of the things he said, he said, How are you? And he said, I'm tired. I'm always exhausted. I'm always tired.But when he sits in, he's comfortable in that tiredness, curating and creating something for himself. So for me, he exemplified the, you know, the notes that we need to pay attention to. When we're listening to entrepreneurs, it's not the big words or the quotations from the books, but the way that they're manifesting it in their lives.And he's a beautiful example of that.
Bobby: It goes to me, he is, he has written and is writing a beautiful story of, of the life that he wants to live in his own personal life, his business life. And that transcends your typical business plans, or, you know, A to Z, and these all things you do, it's, it's his whole way of being.
Rehema: Exactly.
Bobby: It's, he's totally authentic and comfortable in who he is. And it's about, you know, you don't see, there's no concept brought up of our work life balance.
Rehema: No
Bobby: And that's what what he needs.It's just I'm living. And I'm living my brand. And this is me and anybody that comes in is gonna be part of me part of my brand.And it's just, yeah, he's just his persona is so much bigger than just one human being.
Rehema: Absolutely.
Bobby: It was really, really beautiful. So I love that energy that he brought it.And yeah, I think there's a lot, a lot of takeouts on that
Rehema: There’s a lot. There's a lot. And I think one of his lasting things for me is, this is me, take it, leave it, I'll find my people along the way.
Bobby: Yeah.
Rehema: And I think that's, that's an invitation for people, right? Find your people, stay with them, move on, it's okay. Life goes on. And gosh, I'm enamoured, hey?
Bobby: No, you are. So I want to sort of wrap up with a thought about that finding your people, allowing people to find you because to me, it is so important.So many people live, you know, in accordance with conditioning with how they've been brought up, they've got all the limitations. And Kagiso is unashamedly, authentically himself. And if you are authentic, and you step into your own light, then your people can see who you are, and you will attract them.So you're not attracting the wrong type of energy by playing somebody that you're not. So I just, I just love that about him. And I think that's a lesson for all of us to actually take note of, be authentically yourself, or be the authentic you, you're meant to be, and your people will find you.
Rehema: People will find you. He's somebody to watch.
Bobby: Absolutely.And we might have him on episode two.
Rehema: We must.
Bobby: We definitely will. Thank you for joining us.And we would love to love you to share your comments with us. So please feel free to we will get back to them. We will answer you and yeah, try our best to keep the energy rolling.
Rehema: Yep. The right energy.